Discussion:
DK MIA?
(too old to reply)
s***@gmail.com
2014-02-02 02:09:02 UTC
Permalink
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.

But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
lefty
2014-02-02 19:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.
But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
Note that if the thread involved the much dreaded IBOC, DK steers clear
or them.
David Kaye
2014-02-03 00:01:08 UTC
Permalink
People wrote...
Post by s***@gmail.com
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.
But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
Note that if the thread involved the much dreaded IBOC, DK steers clear or
them.
INDEED. I'm here, I'm well, I'm trying to launch a new business
specializing in booking performers for rich people's parties and corporate
events. I put on a weekly live music show at SF's Atlas Cafe on Friday
nights. I've also taken over promotion for them. The Friday night showcase
vets acts for future professional gigs.

I have filtered out certain words related to "HD Radio", though IBOC is not
one of them, so I saw this message. I won't get into the pissing match over
"HD" because I believe that it's 2 decades too late, the quality isn't good,
and the equipment is too expensive. And I will NOT respond to people who
want to engage me in a discussion about that.

For those of you know know me personally, I make posts every few days on
Facebook, and I still run the twice weekly SF Games games group - real
people playing real games in real cafes! I'm also attempting to author a
board game. Coming up with a game with good play value is difficult.

I post on SF Gate or Yahoo News from time to time but only if there are just
a few posts and it is early in the news cycle. This is because I find it
useless to post somewhere if 1500 people have already posted comments.
Chances are I can't add anything new.

Thanks for your concern everybody. I appreciate the interest.

--dk
sms
2014-02-03 01:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Post by s***@gmail.com
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.
But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
Note that if the thread involved the much dreaded IBOC, DK steers clear
or them.
When someone can't discuss a subject based on facts and logic then it's
best to steer clear of those debates.

The bottom line is that what the U.S. digital radio system has going for
it is that the audio quality is excellent, both the receivers and
transmitters are relatively inexpensive, and because it's evolutionary
it can be rolled out over a period of time as the receiver installed
base increases with new car sales. It's similar to the FM roll-out on
the listener side but a lot easier on the broadcaster side than FM
because a broadcaster doesn't have to buy new spectrum.
s***@gmail.com
2014-02-03 03:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by lefty
Post by s***@gmail.com
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.
But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
Note that if the thread involved the much dreaded IBOC, DK steers clear
or them.
When someone can't discuss a subject based on facts and logic then it's
best to steer clear of those debates.
Steve, dude, respect the thread. There are plenty regarding HD, IBOC, etc.

This is a little chatty thread regarding one of the regulars.
sms
2014-02-03 09:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by sms
When someone can't discuss a subject based on facts and logic then it's
best to steer clear of those debates.
Steve, dude, respect the thread.
LOL, the follow-up was on-topic.
Patty Winter
2014-02-03 04:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by lefty
Note that if the thread involved the much dreaded IBOC, DK steers clear
or them.
When someone can't discuss a subject based on facts and logic then it's
best to steer clear of those debates.
What does your remark have to do with what "lefty" said? He merely said
that David doesn't want to discuss IBOC and you start flinging insults
about David not being able to discuss the subject logically? You've
sure got a Pavlovian thing going on about any mention of IBOC.


Patty
lefty
2014-02-04 05:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
When someone can't discuss a subject based on facts and logic then it's
best to steer clear of those debates.
Oh, I think DK knows IBOC sucks. Nobody like interference. Everyone
likes to DX.
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-04 06:24:30 UTC
Permalink
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
lefty
2014-02-04 08:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
s***@gmail.com
2014-02-04 14:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
Depends where I am, but I always DX while driving after dark. KFI or
KNX; the Mexi sports station that serves San Diego, etc.

Mornings I will listen to the Fresno farm report, or KKOH out of Reno.

I can never get a Portland station, though.
sms
2014-02-04 16:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
Depends where I am, but I always DX while driving after dark. KFI or
KNX; the Mexi sports station that serves San Diego, etc.
Mornings I will listen to the Fresno farm report, or KKOH out of Reno.
That's true, I never thought of receiving those AM stations as DXing
since they're in California, but it actually is DXing. So apparently
digital radio has not had much of an effect on DXing.

AM IBOC doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. AM stations should just plan
on going all-digital in the next few years once most people have a radio
that can receive digital broadcasts.

Remember, the IBOC part of digital radio is intended to be temporary.
Eventually analog radio will be turned off and the entire bandwidth will
be used for digital service.
Phil Kane
2014-02-05 22:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
AM IBOC doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. AM stations should just plan
on going all-digital in the next few years once most people have a radio
that can receive digital broadcasts.
You surely are making jests, mon ami.

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
Patty Winter
2014-02-05 23:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
Post by sms
AM IBOC doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. AM stations should just plan
on going all-digital in the next few years once most people have a radio
that can receive digital broadcasts.
You surely are making jests, mon ami.
True believers don't joke.


Patty
Phil Kane
2014-02-05 22:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
I can never get a Portland station, though.
You're not missing anything. I don't listen to local AM for content
anyhow.

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-04 17:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
sms
2014-02-04 18:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
These amazing side issues about digital radio are invented by people for
their own purposes. It's amusing to watch.

One person is promoting satellite radio, for unknown reasons, so he
feels compelled to fabricate myths about digital terrestrial radio, even
though everyone agrees that HD Radio has superior audio quality compared
to satellite radio.

One person automatically insists that any interference that anyone
reports must be a result of IBOC interference even when it isn't. That
same person either lies about, or is unfamiliar with, the type of Codec
used by iBiquity.

Another person proclaims that he doesn't think HD Radio has good sound
quality even though he's never listened to it.

The alleged end of DXing, which ceased to be even a moderately popular
hobby decades ago, is now blamed on IBOC.

There is simply nothing that these people won't do or say to advance
their agendas. Facts are just an annoyance to be ignored.
lefty
2014-02-04 20:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Everyone likes to DX.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is
listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
These amazing side issues about digital radio are invented by people for
their own purposes. It's amusing to watch.
One person is promoting satellite radio, for unknown reasons, so he
feels compelled to fabricate myths about digital terrestrial radio, even
though everyone agrees that HD Radio has superior audio quality compared
to satellite radio.
Hint: you are not everybody
Hint: you are not everybody

Xm has far superior programming. I always point this out, but you can't
comprehend good programming. BBC good: Fucking disco shit: bad. Get it?
Post by sms
One person automatically insists that any interference that anyone
reports must be a result of IBOC interference even when it isn't. That
same person either lies about, or is unfamiliar with, the type of Codec
used by iBiquity.
Most people don't know that IBOC is fucking up their reception. They
just hear a hiss and complain.
Post by sms
Another person proclaims that he doesn't think HD Radio has good sound
quality even though he's never listened to it.
If that is supposed to me be, I heard IBOC once. It kept cutting out.
Post by sms
The alleged end of DXing, which ceased to be even a moderately popular
hobby decades ago, is now blamed on IBOC.
Cite your reference that DXing is dead. Be specific. Of course, you
never are, You just make up stats.
Post by sms
There is simply nothing that these people won't do or say to advance
their agendas. Facts are just an annoyance to be ignored.
If you spouted some facts, we would listen.
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-04 21:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Hint: you are not everybody
Nor are you.....but it didn't stop you from proclaiming "Everybody loves to
DX".
Post by lefty
Hint: you are not everybody
Xm has far superior programming. I always point this out, but you can't
comprehend good programming. BBC good: Fucking disco shit: bad. Get it?
So once again....YOU are everyone....and the arbiter of what is good and
bad.

(BTW...giving XM credit for BBC? Now THAT's a reach.)
Post by lefty
Most people don't know that IBOC is fucking up their reception. They just
hear a hiss and complain.
I have never seen one study that has substantiated HD interference
complaints.

Yet, as SMS points out....everything that is wrong with radio is due to
IBOC...if you listen to the HD Haterz.
Post by lefty
Another person proclaims that he doesn't think HD Radio has good sound
Post by sms
quality even though he's never listened to it.
If that is supposed to me be, I heard IBOC once. It kept cutting out.
So, you are judging HD sound quality on ONE experience.

(And an experience where you couldn't get a lock on the frequency...no
less.)
Post by lefty
Cite your reference that DXing is dead. Be specific. Of course, you never
are, You just make up stats.
Ratings.....and DX phone calls into stations.
Post by lefty
Post by sms
There is simply nothing that these people won't do or say to advance
their agendas. Facts are just an annoyance to be ignored.
Here's a fact....whenever we hear of some crazy story about a station that
receives interference due to IBOC....when we ask specifics, the claim
dissappears.
sms
2014-02-04 23:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
So, you are judging HD sound quality on ONE experience.
(And an experience where you couldn't get a lock on the frequency...no
less.)
LOL, yes terrestrial analog radio, terrestrial digital radio, satellite
radio, and Internet radio, all sound really bad when they cut out.

It is true that Internet radio and satellite radio have more programming
choices than terrestrial radio whether analog or digital. At least with
Internet radio you can get good audio quality for your money.
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Ratings.....and DX phone calls into stations.
Post by sms
There is simply nothing that these people won't do or say to advance
their agendas. Facts are just an annoyance to be ignored.
Here's a fact....whenever we hear of some crazy story about a station that
receives interference due to IBOC....when we ask specifics, the claim
dissappears.
There are so many crazy stories that in the actual cases where there is
interference no one believes it. It's the boy who cried wolf. The next
thing we'll hear is that the false claims of interference are a plot by
iBiquity because with so many bogus claims of interference they'll be
able to claim that even real claims are bogus.

The DXing claim is pretty creative, I have to give credit to the crazies
for coming up with it, no matter how bogus it actually is.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXing>
"The popularity of DXing the medium-wave band has diminished as the
popular music formats quickly migrated to the clearer, though less
propagating, FM radio beginning in the 1970s. Meanwhile, the MW band in
the United States was getting more and more crowded with new stations
and existing stations receiving FCC authorization to operate at night."
Alan
2014-02-05 00:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXing>
"The popularity of DXing the medium-wave band has diminished as the
popular music formats quickly migrated to the clearer, though less
propagating, FM radio beginning in the 1970s. Meanwhile, the MW band in
the United States was getting more and more crowded with new stations
and existing stations receiving FCC authorization to operate at night."
The thing about wikipedia is that pretty much anyone can update it
to say what they want, then they can quote it as a reference.

Of course, folks did not do DXing to listen to the music.

Alan
sms
2014-02-05 01:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
Post by sms
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXing>
"The popularity of DXing the medium-wave band has diminished as the
popular music formats quickly migrated to the clearer, though less
propagating, FM radio beginning in the 1970s. Meanwhile, the MW band in
the United States was getting more and more crowded with new stations
and existing stations receiving FCC authorization to operate at night."
The thing about wikipedia is that pretty much anyone can update it
to say what they want, then they can quote it as a reference.
Of course, folks did not do DXing to listen to the music.
Yeah, I hesitated to use Wikipedia as a source but unfortunately DXing
has become such a rare thing that you're not going to find any in-depth
studies on its popularity. There might still be some small interest in
DXing in terms of shortwave, though the advent of streaming has caused a
lot of shortwave broadcasters to cut back.
lefty
2014-02-06 04:39:23 UTC
Permalink
I wonder who buys these?
http://dxtools.com/QXPro.htm
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-06 06:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
I wonder who buys these?
http://dxtools.com/QXPro.htm
Radio hobbyists?
Phil Kane
2014-02-06 22:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
I wonder who buys these?
http://dxtools.com/QXPro.htm
And at what price?

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
s***@gmail.com
2014-02-06 23:25:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
I wonder who buys these?
http://dxtools.com/QXPro.htm
Holy McKay-Dymek!!

http://www.universal-radio.com/used/sold433.html
lefty
2014-02-07 07:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by lefty
I wonder who buys these?
http://dxtools.com/QXPro.htm
Holy McKay-Dymek!!
http://www.universal-radio.com/used/sold433.html
The biggest bang for the buck is
Post by s***@gmail.com
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/antennashop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=64
I have the old version. You supply your own wire loop. I like how the
product description suggests you buy two for noise cancellation.

Over the years, I've acquired a Kiwa and Quantum. Unfortunately thanks
to the internet, there are no good deals on these items.

The NDBs are disappearing. The AM band has that stupid IBOC hash. I
can't wait until everyone turns that crap off.
Neil
2014-02-07 20:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by lefty
I wonder who buys these?
http://dxtools.com/QXPro.htm
Holy McKay-Dymek!!
http://www.universal-radio.com/used/sold433.html
The biggest bang for the buck is
Post by s***@gmail.com
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/antennashop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=64
I have the old version. You supply your own wire loop. I like how the
product description suggests you buy two for noise cancellation.
Over the years, I've acquired a Kiwa and Quantum. Unfortunately thanks
to the internet, there are no good deals on these items.
The NDBs are disappearing. The AM band has that stupid IBOC hash. I
can't wait until everyone turns that crap off.
In one (and only one) aspect I have to agree with SMS and "Mr. Struble"
(the anonymous poster labeling himself this week as "Greg Smith Watch").
AM DX'ing has become much less worthwhile to do, even accounting for all
the IBOC hash, which is thankfully decreasing as stations realize the
futility and money sink of that technology and turn the damn thing off.

Once AM stations stopped producing their own local programming and began
hooking up the satellite receiver directly to the transmitter, what was
the point of DX'ing? For every [former] KGO or KFI doing local talk
shows, or a KCBS/KNX/KOMO doing local all news from a blowtorch signal,
there are many dozens of DXable signals airing syndicated stupid talk,
or Coast-to-Coast AM, or Jesuscasters, or foreign language programming.
Add in all the low-power drop-ins that clutter up the dial, and the RFI
from your neighborhood street lights or your CFL or LED lighting, and
BPL (Broadband over Power Line), and why even bother anymore?

It's a shame, but once an industry has entered a suicide pact, there's
only so much an unrelated bystander can do.
lefty
2014-02-07 22:37:02 UTC
Permalink
I know what you mean, however it is somewhat entertaining to see how
many different Coast to Coast feeds you could pick up. For one thing,
you didn't have to wait for a station ID. You listen to the local Coast
to Coast feed, so when you hear another weak signal, it is easy to
identify that it is Coast to Coast. Then you look up the station list on
their website, match the frequency, and you nailed it.
Phil Kane
2014-02-05 23:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan
The thing about wikipedia is that pretty much anyone can update it
to say what they want, then they can quote it as a reference.
How very true. In the early 1960s I worked on a then top-secret
military comm project that now has been written up in Wikipedia - with
errors which I don't intend to correct. Take Wiki-stuff with a grain
of Wiki-salt. Just like Usenet,

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
Bradley K. Sherman
2014-02-06 00:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
Post by Alan
The thing about wikipedia is that pretty much anyone can update it
to say what they want, then they can quote it as a reference.
How very true. In the early 1960s I worked on a then top-secret
military comm project that now has been written up in Wikipedia - with
errors which I don't intend to correct. Take Wiki-stuff with a grain
of Wiki-salt. Just like Usenet,
Just like the _New York Times_. Or sfgate.com, for that matter.

--bks
sms
2014-02-06 00:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
Post by Alan
The thing about wikipedia is that pretty much anyone can update it
to say what they want, then they can quote it as a reference.
How very true. In the early 1960s I worked on a then top-secret
military comm project that now has been written up in Wikipedia - with
errors which I don't intend to correct. Take Wiki-stuff with a grain
of Wiki-salt. Just like Usenet,
<Loading Image...>
Dave Barnett
2014-02-05 22:29:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
I have never seen one study that has substantiated HD interference
complaints.
Try driving around Auburn, CA:



No DX there. This video was taken within the "protected contour" of KVMR.

Dave B.


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-06 06:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Barnett
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
I have never seen one study that has substantiated HD interference
complaints.
No DX there. This video was taken within the "protected contour" of KVMR.
Auburn is barely at the protected contour....Placerville and Plymouth are
outside of the protected contour.

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KVMR&service=FM&status=L&hours=U
lefty
2014-02-06 04:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Hint: you are not everybody
Nor are you.....but it didn't stop you from proclaiming "Everybody loves to
DX".
Post by lefty
Hint: you are not everybody
Xm has far superior programming. I always point this out, but you can't
comprehend good programming. BBC good: Fucking disco shit: bad. Get it?
So once again....YOU are everyone....and the arbiter of what is good and
bad.
(BTW...giving XM credit for BBC? Now THAT's a reach.)
Post by lefty
Most people don't know that IBOC is fucking up their reception. They just
hear a hiss and complain.
I have never seen one study that has substantiated HD interference
complaints.
Yet, as SMS points out....everything that is wrong with radio is due to
IBOC...if you listen to the HD Haterz.
Huh?
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Another person proclaims that he doesn't think HD Radio has good sound
Post by sms
quality even though he's never listened to it.
If that is supposed to me be, I heard IBOC once. It kept cutting out.
So, you are judging HD sound quality on ONE experience.
There is a lack of functioning IBOC radios in stores. I certainly
wouldn't waste my own money on such shit.
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
(And an experience where you couldn't get a lock on the frequency...no
less.)
The radio kept switching modes between good and IBOC. I have heard this
is common.
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Cite your reference that DXing is dead. Be specific. Of course, you never
are, You just make up stats.
Ratings.....and DX phone calls into stations.
This would require live radio, something rare these days. However, on
Coast to Coast, you hear a lot of US callers listening on Canadian
stations.
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Post by sms
There is simply nothing that these people won't do or say to advance
their agendas. Facts are just an annoyance to be ignored.
Here's a fact....whenever we hear of some crazy story about a station that
receives interference due to IBOC....when we ask specifics, the claim
dissappears.
No. I guess you don't know how IBOC works. It places a signal in the
traditional guard bands. Such a signal interfers with a station that is
licensed to broadcast on that band. Hence IBOC is QRM.

Now that you understand IBOC, I'm sure you will agree with me.
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-06 06:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Yet, as SMS points out....everything that is wrong with radio is due to
IBOC...if you listen to the HD Haterz.
Huh?
You didn't get it...then forget it.
Post by lefty
There is a lack of functioning IBOC radios in stores.
They have put more focus on auto radios....where the change has to occur.

Almost 30% of new cars have HD.
Post by lefty
The radio kept switching modes between good and IBOC.
During your one experience.
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
I have heard this
is common.
And I have heard the moon is made of cheese.
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Cite your reference that DXing is dead. Be specific. Of course, you never
are, You just make up stats.
Ratings.....and DX phone calls into stations.
This would require live radio, something rare these days.
Many of the big 50KW stations have live shows after sunset.
Post by lefty
No. I guess you don't know how IBOC works.
I understand more than you could imagine.

We are still waiting for the story and data on stations that receive
interference in their protected contours.
Post by lefty
Now that you understand IBOC, I'm sure you will agree with me.
That's the problem with Liberals...they are always trying to lecture people.

And they HATE when someone has a disagreement with them.
sms
2014-02-06 17:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by lefty
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Yet, as SMS points out....everything that is wrong with radio is due to
IBOC...if you listen to the HD Haterz.
Huh?
You didn't get it...then forget it.
Post by lefty
There is a lack of functioning IBOC radios in stores.
They have put more focus on auto radios....where the change has to occur.
Almost 30% of new cars have HD.
There are some HD Radios in stores but the number of people that go to a
store to buy a radio of any kind are few. Who's even buying home
receiver/amplifiers anymore?

The big expansion in HD Radio is coming in new cars. Just like what
happened with FM radio, just like what happened with satellite radio.
Travis James
2014-02-07 18:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
There are some HD Radios in stores but the number of people that go to a
store to buy a radio of any kind are few. Who's even buying home
receiver/amplifiers anymore?
I just bought one (Yamaha) a few months ago. I hadn't had the classic
black box receiver in almost 20 years. It looks just same since then.
But it's what it does:
- HDMI pass through for the TV, Xbox and Apple TV
- Apple AirPlay (we're a house of iStuff) so we can wirelessly stream
Spotify, Pandora, etc.
- Receiver control from iOS
- $200 refurb from Woot

I plugged in my 20 yr old Bose AM3 speakers which sounded better than I
expected.

Even though soundbars appear to be "the thing" these days by the ads, I
don't recall ever seeing on in someone's home. I still see receivers,
some with sophisticated whole house and smartphone integration.
David Kaye
2014-02-07 22:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travis James
I just bought one (Yamaha) a few months ago. I hadn't had the classic
black box receiver in almost 20 years. It looks just same since then. But
People who post here aren't representative of the public at large. We're
radio geeks. Most people are not buying stereos, radios, or any audio
equipment to speak of. They're buying iPads, iPods, and similar equipment
and listening via earbuds these days.

Think about it. Have you heard any boomboxes lately?
Travis James
2014-02-07 23:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
Post by Travis James
I just bought one (Yamaha) a few months ago. I hadn't had the classic
black box receiver in almost 20 years. It looks just same since then. But
People who post here aren't representative of the public at large. We're
radio geeks. Most people are not buying stereos, radios, or any audio
equipment to speak of. They're buying iPads, iPods, and similar equipment
and listening via earbuds these days.
I also buy iPads, etc. and listen on earbuds. I don't think receivers
are dead technology, they adapt and still exist.

Today's boombox? Bluetooth speakers.
David Kaye
2014-02-08 12:03:47 UTC
Permalink
I also buy iPads, etc. and listen on earbuds. I don't think receivers are
dead technology, they adapt and still exist.
What YOU buy isn't germane to the discussion; we're talking about the
average person, and the average person is not setting up stereo systems
these days.
Travis James
2014-02-08 22:10:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
I also buy iPads, etc. and listen on earbuds. I don't think receivers are
dead technology, they adapt and still exist.
What YOU buy isn't germane to the discussion; we're talking about the
average person, and the average person is not setting up stereo systems
these days.
No shit. I'm just not necessarily convinced that the statement about the
average person is true. I have not seen it in an emperical sense nor in
a market sense. Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, Denon, and so on wouldn't continue
cranking them out if no one was buying them. In fact, they are far more
affordable than they were 20 years ago.
David Kaye
2014-02-09 02:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travis James
No shit. I'm just not necessarily convinced that the statement about the
average person is true. I have not seen it in an emperical sense nor in a
market sense. Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, Denon, and so on wouldn't continue
cranking them out if no one was buying them. In fact, they are far more
affordable than they were 20 years ago.
All one has to do is visit Best Buy and see what people are buying. They're
buying big-screen TVs, and i-gadgets. Oh sure, there are the occasional
"home theater" buys, but not all that many. It's not like the days when
home audio was must-have.
s***@gmail.com
2014-02-11 00:57:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
I also buy iPads, etc. and listen on earbuds. I don't think receivers are
dead technology, they adapt and still exist.
What YOU buy isn't germane to the discussion; we're talking about the
average person, and the average person is not setting up stereo systems
these days.
When the non-average person was setting up stereo systems in those days,
the "average" person bought consoles, or all-in-one units. When I met my
inlaws, they had a receiver that was also a cassette and 8-track deck,
with a turntable on top.

People now are apt to set up a reasonable facsimile of a home theater
system, with multiple speakers.
Poindexter Fortran
2014-02-19 21:38:00 UTC
Permalink
To: spamtrap1888
-=> spamtrap1888 wrote to ba.broadcast <=-

sp> When the non-average person was setting up stereo systems in those
sp> days, the "average" person bought consoles, or all-in-one units. When I
sp> met my inlaws, they had a receiver that was also a cassette and 8-track
sp> deck, with a turntable on top.

Don't forget the horrible belt-drive turntables and huge pressed-board
speakers with a single element.




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David Kaye
2014-02-20 18:15:45 UTC
Permalink
"Poindexter Fortran"
Post by Poindexter Fortran
Don't forget the horrible belt-drive turntables and huge pressed-board
speakers with a single element.
Hey Poindy, long time no see. I remember buying a (thankfully used)
turntable that felt massive when I spun it. Later when I pulled off the
platter to see why it was playing unevenly, it turned out to be a cheap
aluminum platter with some weights glued to the underside to make it
heavier. One of the weights had fallen off.

lefty
2014-02-07 22:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travis James
Post by sms
There are some HD Radios in stores but the number of people that go to a
store to buy a radio of any kind are few. Who's even buying home
receiver/amplifiers anymore?
I just bought one (Yamaha) a few months ago. I hadn't had the classic
black box receiver in almost 20 years. It looks just same since then.
- HDMI pass through for the TV, Xbox and Apple TV
- Apple AirPlay (we're a house of iStuff) so we can wirelessly stream
Spotify, Pandora, etc.
- Receiver control from iOS
- $200 refurb from Woot
I plugged in my 20 yr old Bose AM3 speakers which sounded better than I
expected.
Even though soundbars appear to be "the thing" these days by the ads, I
don't recall ever seeing on in someone's home. I still see receivers,
some with sophisticated whole house and smartphone integration.
I just use stereo speakers, but in theory the sound bar is supposed to
have the center channel audio. Sound bars are the answer to the
absolutely zero effort TV manufacturers put into sound.

When Apple was making noise about the Apple TV, I figures it would be
some good display and then integrated sound.

Some of these TVs try to hide the speakers behind the panel.
Dave Barnett
2014-02-07 04:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
We are still waiting for the story and data on stations that receive
interference in their protected contours.
I guess you didn't see my previous post. NPR labs predicted early on
that almost half of the listeners within KVMR's protected contour would
receive interference at elevated power levels. That prediction turned
out to be fairly accurate. Here's a video of that experience:

http://youtu.be/yLTWihy5zvc

Not to be outdone, KVMR creates interference to KQEI in Sacramento:



This is what happens when two adjacent-channel stations broadcast with
elevated power in HD. Both stations have lost significant audience as a
result.

Dave B.




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Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-07 06:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Barnett
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
We are still waiting for the story and data on stations that receive
interference in their protected contours.
I guess you didn't see my previous post.
I did.

Apparently you did not see my previous response.

Auburn is barely at the protected contour....Placerville and Plymouth are
outside of the protected contour.

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KVMR&service=FM&status=L&hours=U
Dave Barnett
2014-02-07 16:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Apparently you did not see my previous response.
Auburn is barely at the protected contour....Placerville and Plymouth are
outside of the protected contour.
Yeah. Sorry. Looks like there's a usenet delay. The ironic aspect of
that is that reception is perfect in Placerville and Plymouth. But as
soon as you get to a populated area it sucks. To draw a parallel, it
would be like Wild 94.9 losing all of San Jose, yet retaining all of
their listeners in Gilroy and Salinas.

The big difference here is that KVMR is a small station and doesn't have
the resources to mount a fight against this type of problem. I'm pretty
sure Clear Channel would have done something to rectify the situation if
they lost their San Jose audience.

Dave B.



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Phil Kane
2014-02-05 23:03:06 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 12:56:33 -0500, "Greg Smith Watch, Inc."
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
DXing for content, perhaps. DXing for the joy of DXing - priceless!
There are still some of us out here that regard radio signals as
things of wonder rather than as commodities to be marketed.

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
lefty
2014-02-06 04:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 12:56:33 -0500, "Greg Smith Watch, Inc."
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
DXing for content, perhaps. DXing for the joy of DXing - priceless!
There are still some of us out here that regard radio signals as
things of wonder rather than as commodities to be marketed.
Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
Aircraft are interesting to DX. The modulation unfortunately is AM, so
the monitoring can be hard on the ears. But you can generally guess
where they are based on the ATC instructions. Many of the flights are
shown on Flightaware, so you can really narrow down the location.
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-06 06:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 12:56:33 -0500, "Greg Smith Watch, Inc."
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
DXing for content, perhaps. DXing for the joy of DXing - priceless!
For radio geeks only....and broadcast policy is not formulated for radio
geeks.
sms
2014-02-06 17:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Post by Phil Kane
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 12:56:33 -0500, "Greg Smith Watch, Inc."
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
People stopped DX-ing or listening to skywave long before IBOC.
DXing for content, perhaps. DXing for the joy of DXing - priceless!
For radio geeks only....and broadcast policy is not formulated for radio
geeks.
That's really the bottom line. Over the years in this Usenet group there
have been numerous examples of people that have been upset over FCC
actions that have been beneficial to the listening and viewing public
but that have been not so beneficial to radio geeks (or TV geeks for
that matter).

People need to look at the big picture. Terrestrial broadcasting now has
competition. Many of the changes that have been made, including digital
radio, are an effort to keep terrestrial broadcasting viable.
J. Scott
2014-02-06 21:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by lefty
Well yeah, I suppose since IBOC ruined DXIng, fewer people do it.
Only us weirdos with Grundig radios. ;)
sms
2014-02-04 15:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
The FCC understood that while DXing may have been an interesting hobby
in an earlier century that it's virtually non-existent now.

The FCC has an obligation to manage the airwaves for the public benefit.
Digital radio has a big public benefit: superior audio quality to analog
radio or satellite radio and increased programming choices. The
trade-off of worsening the ability to DX, which almost no one does
anymore, was an easy one to make.
Phil Kane
2014-02-05 22:53:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 01:24:30 -0500, "Greg Smith Watch, Inc."
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Speak for yourself. It's more challenging now that other stations are
on the clear-channel frequencies that used to be slam-dunk BCDX at
night.

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-06 06:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 01:24:30 -0500, "Greg Smith Watch, Inc."
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
The truth is that virtually no one DX's anymore...no one is listening to
skywave broadcasts.
Speak for yourself.
No, I'm speaking for more than myself.

Virtually no one outside of radio hobbyists listens to DX or skywave radio.
David Kaye
2014-02-06 07:13:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
Virtually no one outside of radio hobbyists listens to DX or skywave radio.
Exactly. And even in the heyday of DXing, the 1920s and 30s, only radio
geeks DXed. Sure, there were magazines because there were companies that
sold tubes, coils, and various other parts.

And as for catching skywave, there are so few people listening to stations
outside the local area, that the audience is not even considered when
stations are selling ad time. Sure, some stations like KGO may subscribe to
out of market ratings, but that's really just for vanity; they don't
actually sell time based on those numbers (if any).

Hey, this thread is supposed to be about ME!
Neil
2014-02-17 00:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.
But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
David Kaye
2014-02-17 02:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
Maybe he finally quit it all and moved to Pahrump fulltime. Someone told me
he was spending lots of time down there and had bought a
house/trailer/hovel.
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-17 02:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
Or did he find he can't play with the big boys...



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
sms
2014-02-18 00:21:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil
Post by s***@gmail.com
I haven't seen him post to sfgate since they changed their commenting software a
while back.
But he recently got a new review on yelp (after Jan 20).
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
John was extremely embarrassed by several posts he had made where
certain claims he made were proven to be untrue.

Normally someone that makes an error in a post would just follow-up with
"sorry, I made a mistake, I was wrong," or something in that vein, but
for some reason John would always dig himself in deeper. That sort of
attitude doesn't go over well on Usenet, or in any forums for that
matter, so it's best that he gave up on posting to forums.
David Kaye
2014-02-17 18:14:47 UTC
Permalink
John was extremely embarrassed by several posts he had made where certain
claims he made were proven to be untrue.
I doubt that. He has made lots of false claims and errors over the years
and it hasn't stopped him, and certainly didn't embarrass him.

In a discussion about testing of music, he wailed that the big stations
today were ruining radio because they tested every song, and that the
successful small stations he worked for (KKIQ, KKDV, and KUIC) were
successful because they DIDN'T do that. I told him that he was mistaken,
that the reason his small stations were successful was because they DID test
the music. He didn't believe me and went on and on about how wrong I was.
He told me I didn't know what I was talking about since I no longer worked
in radio, and discounted me entirely. Then he talked with the music
director and found that what I said was true.

He never said, "I'm sorry, I was mistaken"; in fact he's never apologized
for anything he's said at any time. He's just not that way.

Embarrassed? No, he's not out of here because of any embarrassment. It's
likely that he reached his spam limit and left because of that. I don't
blame him.


As for me, I don't post much on here because my interests have drifted away
from the ins and outs of broadcasting. Modular electronics has meant that
where 1 engineer and an assistant were required for each station, today 1
and an assistant (if they're lucky to get an assistant) oversees 6 or 8
stations because failures simply do not happen much anymore.

Modular programming has meant that a station can buy pre-tested music with
only local tweaks in playlists. Spots are pre-produced elsewhere and
emailed or FTP'd in to the station. The public service requirement today is
so loose that few stations have local news or any real local content at all.
Many stations used syndicated programming coming off a satellite that
triggers automation for local spot and ID inserts. And at 7pm most stations
that were manual during the day turn on the automation and walk out the door
for the next 10 hours.

When I worked at 500 watt KWUN in Concord, a tiny station by anyone's
standards, there was a staff of 11 usually. The roles there were
owner/sales, sales, sales, PD/DJ, CE, DJ, DJ, DJ, DJ, public affairs/news,
news.

Today, such a station would have owner/sales, CE (1/4 time or less), PD/DJ,
DJ, or 4 people -- AND it would be part of a cluster of maybe 4 stations,
with people spread among all the stations.

It gets really hard to care about radio broadcasting anymore.
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-17 18:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kaye
John was extremely embarrassed by several posts he had made where certain
claims he made were proven to be untrue.
I doubt that. He has made lots of false claims and errors over the years
and it hasn't stopped him, and certainly didn't embarrass him.
He insisted on posting things as fact, when they weresimply the way he
wantedto believe were fact.

Not much discussion when that is the case.

He apparently was used to his small string of stations where no one
challenges him.
Phil Kane
2014-02-18 00:49:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:14:47 -0800, "David Kaye"
Post by David Kaye
It gets really hard to care about radio broadcasting anymore.
Yeah - gone are the days when I would sit in front of the transmitter
to make sure that it didn't walk away. The 15-minute meter logging
was the only thing that interrupted my doing my engineering school
homework unless an alarm went off. Programming came from Master
Control next door or from Studio E after midnight. Ah, for the good
old days! <GG>

Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
David Kaye
2014-02-18 03:23:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Kane
Yeah - gone are the days when I would sit in front of the transmitter
to make sure that it didn't walk away. The 15-minute meter logging
was the only thing that interrupted my doing my engineering school
homework unless an alarm went off. Programming came from Master
Control next door or from Studio E after midnight. Ah, for the good
old days! <GG>
When I began in broadcasting in 1900-mumbledee, we took transmitter readings
every half hour. The transmitter had a crystal oven where an actual mercury
thermometer was visible to the observer. That was the old KBBM in Hayward
(now, incidentally KKIQ). Later when I took broadcast training at KCSM they
also had a transmitter with a crystal oven.

When I moved over to KVEZ/KSOL (107.7), the transmitter was on King's
Mountain and was remoted, but the telemetry was so bad on a windy day that
we were told to take an average of the swinging readings. I was told that
the antenna for the analog STL was swaying in the wind, causing the strange
readings. I don't remember if we had to take the readings hourly by then or
not.

By the time I went to KTHO in South Lake Tahoe, the readings were every 3
hours as they were at KWUN. KWUN had multiple issues with the 5-tower
antenna phasing, requiring digilent observations and telling the CE about
excessive common point current, etc. One of the engineers who consulted on
the building of the station told me it should have never been built.

KWUN was fun radio. The owner, Bill Adler, sold every available slot he
could, including the sign-off at sunset, which of course coincided the
dinner time at a restaurant. "KWUN is leaving the air, but the evening is
just beginning at John Jawad's Pioneer Inn in Clayton..." KWUN was real
radio with all kinds of remotes from little league baseball to shopping
center openings. I remember one Saturday lining up two remotes that went
back to back with me reading some local news and weather on the crossover.
They had just enough equipment to cover it. And we were good friends with
telco toll, so their circuits were almost always up and in good
form...except...

Except, one time when a remoted line to one of the bible churches was down.
I don't remember if it was telco's fault or they hadn't paid their bill or
what. Normal procedure was to set up a mixer and leave the mics open for
half an hour before the broadcast to make sure that we could hear them.
This time I couldn't. Had no idea what was wrong. I called the bible
church and they high-tailed it over to KWUN from Oakland and set up a
keyboard and some gospel singers and a preacher and did a live broadcast
from the "news studio" which tripled as the engineering bench and lunch
room. The broadcast came off without a hitch though it started maybe 2
minutes late.

KWUN also ran Notre Dame football via Mutual, and one time they sent us the
wrong schedule for the spot breaks, meaning that they threw to local when we
were expecting network spots, making me rush into the control room and punch
something up. And the network spot lineup was also all wrong.

KWUN liked to have a local adjacency after Mutual news so that it sounded
like the spot was part of the newscast. This meant coming in after the
newscaster signed off but before Mutual ran its bumper jingle. We were
supposed to put in the spot and then play a cart with the jingle after the
spot.

Mutual sometimes gave us headaches because the 2:30pm weekday feed was
supposed to come from "network control" such as it was, from Seattle. I
can't remember if it was KING or KIRO. Anyhow, the West Coast feed was done
because the network spot lineup was different, being 5:30pm afternoon drive
on the East Coast. HOWEVER, the board op in Seattle often failed to pull
the national network patch, meaning that about 1/3 of the time (literally)
we'd hear the start of both the Seattle feed AND the national feed. After a
moment or two (if the newscaster/board op was listening in his phones)
they'd pull the plug on the national feed, but more often than not the
newscaster/board op was NOT listening and the entire first minute of the
newscast had both feeds on it, meaning we'd have to dump out of it.

KTHO was an interesting bird. It was extremely listened to for the winter
road closings, which meant the DJ had to phone the police agencies in
California and Nevada and get the latest updates twice an hour, while often
being put on hold and trying to do a live DJ shift at the same time.

KVEZ went from Spanish language contemporary music to English language
oldies under a change of management. One day I found myself playing board
op to announcers who knew so little English that we communicated a lot in
hand motions, to playing oldies back to back and running voice tracks
(because they didn't think my voice was "mature enough" yet. I left to do
some other things and when I returned the station was changing its callsign
to KSOL and doing an "urban" format under yet another new manager. (This
one stuck.) I didn't sound black enough, either, so I board opped for
various folks and did some production, etc.

TODAY, almost none of this programming stuff happens anymore and none of the
equipment is the same, except that the mixer is recognizable. Heck,
stations even change pattern automatically, no switches to flip.

So today, engineers such as Eric are far more working as IT people at
stations than they are as broadcast engineers.
Patty Winter
2014-02-17 20:00:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by Neil
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
John was extremely embarrassed by several posts he had made where
certain claims he made were proven to be untrue.
Steven, I don't know what you think you're accomplishing by that
statement, but you are just making yourself look like a total jerk.

Is it by any chance possible for you to participate in this group
without making slimy, snide remarks about the working broadcast
engineers who disagree with you?


Patty
Greg Smith Watch, Inc.
2014-02-17 20:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patty Winter
Is it by any chance possible for you to participate in this group
without making slimy, snide remarks about the working broadcast
engineers who disagree with you?
Oh, puh-leese....this is John Higdon in a nutshell.
Patty Winter
2014-02-18 22:41:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
I chatted with him in email. He's been super busy with a combination
of work and personal projects.


Patty
s***@gmail.com
2014-02-19 00:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patty Winter
Post by Neil
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that? Did The Troll
finally wear him down?
I chatted with him in email. He's been super busy with a combination
of work and personal projects.
I appreciate Patty's finding out. I had figured that someday, John would
just move away, with no formalities, leaving broadcasting behind.
Lynn Kelly
2014-02-20 00:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil
Glanced at this thread a moment ago, and it struck me that John Higdon's
been AWOL for far longer than DK. What's up with that?
I chatted with him in email. He's been super busy with a combination of
work and personal projects.
Thank you Patty for the update; I thought John Higdon was quietly enjoying
his retirement. ;)
--
Lynn K.
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